Hello Jiri,
For myself and Bogdan things are pretty clear. We both have companies that closely depend on the success of the project and we have contracts with customers to which we deliver. There is no doubt about who we are, what we do, what is our motivation and driving factor. Clarity is something customers need to have for the sake of their current and future investments.
It is pretty unclear at this stage how the new project will shape up. Merging and forking can lead to inimaginable places as we have seen before several times and is nothing bad in the end as long as the eco- system keeps going and the customers invest further in it, which happend a lot in the last four years.
The real customers are the ones that can decide upon the best solution for their own interests and we shall let them express their choice once they have enough information and measurements.
Regards, Adrian
On Nov 4, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Jiri Kuthan wrote:
Folks,
while there is not yet such a remarkable progress to be shared with those I have chosen to talk to on the opensips side, the invitation is of course very open to anyone with sincere interest in unforking.
-jiri
Hello Everybody,
We are pleased to announce to you the SIP Router project.
It aims to build a solid open source SIP routing platform, based on collaboration of the SIP Express Router (SER) and Kamailio (OpenSER) teams.
Developers of these two projects believe that an united and non-conflicting environment will bring many benefits to them, community members and companies:
* bring together the developers and user communities of bothprojects * reduce maintenance overhead * avoid duplicated efforts in development * develop a core framework that is flexible, extensible and scalable * promote and build a solid open source SIP server project * ensure business credibility * make future forking undesirable, this harms everybody, affects credibility and business
You are welcome to join! Visit the web site at:
There is a meeting in Karlsruhe, Germany, on Nov 10, 2008, hosted by 1&1, where the developers and community members have the chance to discuss and tune the last aspects of the new project. We are looking to see many of you there: http://sip-router.org/index.php/meeting/
We hope this is a great news for you, thanks to the effort of main developers and management teams of the two projects. We invite you to join the new mailing list for further discussions:
http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev
Daniel, Jiri Kamailio Management Team SER Management Team
Users mailing list Users@lists.opensips.org http://lists.opensips.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
Adrian Georgescu wrote:
Hello Jiri,
For myself and Bogdan things are pretty clear. We both have companies that closely depend on the success of the project and we have contracts with customers to which we deliver. There is no doubt about who we are, what we do, what is our motivation and driving factor. Clarity is something customers need to have for the sake of their current and future investments.
It is pretty unclear at this stage how the new project will shape up. Merging and forking can lead to inimaginable places as we have seen before several times and is nothing bad in the end as long as the eco-system keeps going and the customers invest further in it, which happend a lot in the last four years.
The real customers are the ones that can decide upon the best solution for their own interests and we shall let them express their choice once they have enough information and measurements.
Hi Adrian,
Of course interests of companies and their customers are perfectly legitimate and to be accounted for, and transparency is helpful.
I'm just not clear about what possible conclusions relating to the unforking debate I may infer?
One way I explain to myself you meant to imply is that you are interested in working on the merging effort? I really think forking is a bad thing and companies and their customers will benefit of non-balkanized software. (More sophisticated arguments about why forking is bad could be found under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29) Doing harm control is definitely a good thing to do.
-jiri
Regards, Adrian
On Nov 4, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Jiri Kuthan wrote:
Folks,
while there is not yet such a remarkable progress to be shared with those I have chosen to talk to on the opensips side, the invitation is of course very open to anyone with sincere interest in unforking.
-jiri
Hello Everybody,
We are pleased to announce to you the SIP Router project.
It aims to build a solid open source SIP routing platform, based on collaboration of the SIP Express Router (SER) and Kamailio (OpenSER) teams.
Developers of these two projects believe that an united and non-conflicting environment will bring many benefits to them, community members and companies:
* bring together the developers and user communities of both projects * reduce maintenance overhead * avoid duplicated efforts in development * develop a core framework that is flexible, extensible and scalable * promote and build a solid open source SIP server project * ensure business credibility * make future forking undesirable, this harms everybody, affectscredibility and business
You are welcome to join! Visit the web site at:
There is a meeting in Karlsruhe, Germany, on Nov 10, 2008, hosted by 1&1, where the developers and community members have the chance to discuss and tune the last aspects of the new project. We are looking to see many of you there: http://sip-router.org/index.php/meeting/
We hope this is a great news for you, thanks to the effort of main developers and management teams of the two projects. We invite you to join the new mailing list for further discussions:
http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev
Daniel, Jiri Kamailio Management Team SER Management Team
Users mailing list Users@lists.opensips.org http://lists.opensips.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
4 nov 2008 kl. 18.39 skrev Jiri Kuthan:
One way I explain to myself you meant to imply is that you are interested in working on the merging effort? I really think forking is a bad thing and companies and their customers will benefit of non-balkanized software. (More sophisticated arguments about why forking is bad could be found under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29) Doing harm control is definitely a good thing to do.
I don't fully agree with you there. Forking might be a good thing and in some cases, the only way forward for a developer or a group of developers. There's a reason why the open source licenses actually gives users and developers the right to fork. And one have to realize, you can't work with everyone every time. In Open Source, you don't pick your community and learn to work with almost every strange type there is. In some cases, chemistry just doesn't work. Often is more about people, than about code, features or actual result.
On the other hand, I personally try to avoid forking at all costs and I applaud the effort to unite. Not because I dislike forking, but that I like that so many highly professional developers with different skills decide to work together. If they prove that they can work together, I think we'll see miracles. If they can't, well at least they tried.
As Adrian says, in the end the result is what counts. As a consultant and advisor to my customers, I have to be very realistic and at this point say "stick with OpenSER or SER, and wait and see what happens with OpenSIPS, Kamailio and SER"... Most of them have working, running platforms and there's no acute need to upgrade.
Let's move forward and bring back the fun to these projects and create great products!
/O
Johansson Olle E wrote:
Forking might be a good thing and in some cases, the only way forward for a developer or a group of developers. There's a reason why the open source licenses actually gives users and developers the right to fork. And one have to realize, you can't work with everyone every time. In Open Source, you don't pick your community and learn to work with almost every strange type there is. In some cases, chemistry just doesn't work. Often is more about people, than about code, features or actual result.
There is essentially two types of forks. One, what could be called the OpenBSD-type, essentially is a relief to everyone. People that can't work together split up and everyone is happier afterwards. Both sides will insist that the other is a bunch of morons, but that is how it is.
Then there is the EGCS-type. A group of developers believes the old project to be to slow and stuck in their way and leaves. They proof their point and after some time, everyone agrees that they had valid points and a merge happens.
I truly believe that The Original Fork was of the latter type. I think that we who stuck with SER learned our lessons. We still all have our reasons why we stayed with SER and I think it important that our reasons are heard and taken seriously. But in the end the situation is that the community approach taken by OpenSER is more successful in terms of integrating people and encouraging to contribute their time and effort.
Let's move forward and bring back the fun to these projects and create great products!
One second, I need to go fill my glass again ... There we are ... I toast to that!
Best regards, Mar"Hmm, Merlot"tin
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Adrian Georgescu -
Jiri Kuthan -
Johansson Olle E -
Martin Hoffmann