On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Olle E. Johansson oej@edvina.net wrote:
IETF guys should visit our planet someday.
Agreed. There are some people - me included - who live on both planets. but as time goes by, those people are becoming less and less. This is mostly, it would seem, due to many of the people who used to be active in being acquired by large vendors who then get them working on other things or change their direction or thinking :-)
This is a problem I realize at every SIPit. The implementations are far away from the IETF world. And the gap doesn't seem to close.
This is the issue I see at every IETF meeting, and in a lot of on-list discussions. Implementers need to get more involved!
The IETF is *not* a closed process - it's open to everyone. If anyone is unhappy about the direction that the IETF is going, them please please please: get active in the process!
Basic stuff like DNS is not understood or used by many SIPit attendees so even trying to mention NAPTR is too complex, and it's necessary for many security scenarious.
perhaps this is another major issue then - the fact that some implementers don't understand the protocols they're writing software for
Implementers can't make an informed decision about NAPTR/SRV unless they understand it, as well as all the other DNS issues that exist. (on that note, the number of DNS client's that don't randomise QID or sport is shocking). Perhaps they should learn the protocols :-)
now, this leads on to another topic ...
The big question is how to close this gap. I have no clue.
- Can we stop the IETF SIP development during a year and work on
implementations, testing and reality checks?
no! (!!)
- Would it be possible to get more implementation guidelines published?
absolutely. and i think this is where we're going wrong at the moment on the implementer side. We don't have any real "implementers guides" that can be a helping hand to people trying to get up to speed on protocols involved. Almost the whole of SIP requires wrapping your head around many, many issues crossing many RFCs and protocols and "learned experience".
Although, i'll add that many people have managed to understand the protocols without such a guide, so it is possible - but takes many years. Don't expect to just be able to sit down read a book, not get involved in the SIP community, scan a few rfcs/drafts, and suddenly and magically understand SIP. it takes time - there are *lots* of quirks, and a sizeable chunk of undocumented philosophy.
We have at least two cases now where an update to the RFC added important MUSTs:
- Tel uri - phone-context is now required, which affects all SIP
devices using SIP uri with user=phone regardless if they use a Tel: URI.
- RFC2833 DTMF is updated and secure RTP is now required
Will these changes be implemented at all? When?
Yes, they will at some point. Although the problem in RAI is that no one seems to have any time to actually do stuff. So anyone who feels strongly should get involved!
Out of interest - how many people on sip-implementors@ that are actually maintaining SIP implementations are going to be at ietf74 and feel strongly about these issues?
~ Theo