Hello everybody,
I think it is the time to move forward with project management structure. During last days there were talks and discussions on the lists, the solution to make the project independent and long term trustable is to create a foundation.
We made a draft of purpose and organization structure and we want to get your comments.
http://www.kamailio.net/dokuwiki/doku.php/admin:foundation-draft
For the statute we are looking at similar cases of foundations around open source projects. Considering the developer population and contributors, I find as good and reliable place to register the foundation to be Germany.
There is still long way to go and a lot to discuss:
*
membership fees
*
how one can become a full member (associate member can be anyone that is friend of the project and pays the membership fee)
*
how a member loses the board or full member rights
*
how the board is supervised
o
when and how the reports of the board are presented
o
when and how the general assembly meeting takes place
o
how the reports are approved by full members
*
how to change the statute over time
... and perhaps more, but if we start and put some effort we can have it ready in reasonable time, avoiding trust and reliability issues in long term.
Let's have debates here and contribute the results to the wiki.
Cheers, Daniel
So, I went to www.openser.org today and got a page claiming to be OpenSIPS instead... looking back at the naming issue on this userslist I thought perhaps there was another rename - but found no mention of it, and the news page seem to indicate that OpenSIPS is a fork off of OpenSER project. So then I went to Kamailio.org and it seems to strenghten my thoughts.
So I'm in a pickle... which "fork" should I go for then? At the current time I'm guessing they are pretty much alike - are there major differences in the projects? On the roadmaps?
I really should have this out of my mind ASAP as we're about to go live with an OpenSER infrastructure here during August and we'd like the most recent/stable solution from either of the projects for the future...
// gojensen UNINETT
On Tue, August 12, 2008 1:40 pm, G.O. Jensen wrote:
[..] I really should have this out of my mind ASAP as we're about to go live with an OpenSER infrastructure here during August and we'd like the most recent/stable solution from either of the projects for the future...
Hi,
sure, i also like to have this. :-) But unfortunately its not that easy at the moment. If I would came now from the outside I would evaluate both of them like any other open source projects, e.g. look at the mailing lists, think about the recent actions and possible motivations behind them, try to get an impression about the direction and pace of the future development. And then its just a matter of personal taste/ preferences and priorities.
Cheers,
Henning
Hi gojensen ,
Voice System founded OpenSER in 2005 and supported OpenSER since then - now, Voice System decided to continue the work on OpenSER through the OpenSIPS project as kamilio project does not provide anymore the environment we were looking for.
Bogdan
G.O. Jensen wrote:
So, I went to www.openser.org today and got a page claiming to be OpenSIPS instead... looking back at the naming issue on this userslist I thought perhaps there was another rename - but found no mention of it, and the news page seem to indicate that OpenSIPS is a fork off of OpenSER project. So then I went to Kamailio.org and it seems to strenghten my thoughts.
So I'm in a pickle... which "fork" should I go for then? At the current time I'm guessing they are pretty much alike - are there major differences in the projects? On the roadmaps?
I really should have this out of my mind ASAP as we're about to go live with an OpenSER infrastructure here during August and we'd like the most recent/stable solution from either of the projects for the future...
// gojensen UNINETT
Users mailing list Users@lists.kamailio.org http://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
Do you have a general sense of the general price range in which the dues for associate members will fall?
Hi,
I am analyzing a simple scenario of SIP message exchanges for call setup between two SIP end-point and a sip proxy. The SIP signaling messages for call setup are exchanged between two SIP end-points (using SIPp uac and uas) via the openSER intermediary proxy.
Caller Callee SIPp-UAC --> openSER --> SIPp-UAS
No delay has been set between 180, 200 responses messages sent by callee (SIPp-UAS). After using SIPp to create more than 200 cps, openSER starts sending messages out of order (sending 200 before 180). This causes all calls to fail.
PS: 1000 cps is tested successfully with SIPp excluding openSER.
Is there someone who can give me some advice?
Regards, alirsm
On Tue, August 12, 2008 11:33 pm, Ali Soltani wrote:
I am analyzing a simple scenario of SIP message exchanges for call setup between two SIP end-point and a sip proxy. The SIP signaling messages for call setup are exchanged between two SIP end-points (using SIPp uac and uas) via the openSER intermediary proxy.
Caller Callee SIPp-UAC --> openSER --> SIPp-UAS
No delay has been set between 180, 200 responses messages sent by callee (SIPp-UAS). After using SIPp to create more than 200 cps, openSER starts sending messages out of order (sending 200 before 180). This causes all calls to fail.
Hi Ali,
do you get any error messages in the log files this time? What version of OpenSER do you use? Do you do any database lookups or some other resource intensive operations in your configuration? What is the load of the machine when the problems starts to appear?
Cheers,
Henning
Also, from the sipp script, after how much time the 200ok is sent after the 180 was sent? Do you let any ring time at all in your script?
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Henning Westerholt henning.westerholt@1und1.de wrote:
On Tue, August 12, 2008 11:33 pm, Ali Soltani wrote:
I am analyzing a simple scenario of SIP message exchanges for call setup between two SIP end-point and a sip proxy. The SIP signaling messages for call setup are exchanged between two SIP end-points (using SIPp uac and uas) via the openSER intermediary proxy.
Caller Callee SIPp-UAC --> openSER --> SIPp-UAS
No delay has been set between 180, 200 responses messages sent by callee (SIPp-UAS). After using SIPp to create more than 200 cps, openSER starts sending messages out of order (sending 200 before 180). This causes all calls to fail.
Hi Ali,
do you get any error messages in the log files this time? What version of OpenSER do you use? Do you do any database lookups or some other resource intensive operations in your configuration? What is the load of the machine when the problems starts to appear?
Cheers,
Henning
Users mailing list Users@lists.kamailio.org http://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
Hi,
I am not getting any error message in the openSER log file. No database lookups or any intensive operations. OpenSER is simply relay the traffic. Machine load is only few %, more than 90% idle. I have tried 0, 200 msec, 500 msec pause time between 180 and 200. The problem still exists.
I also tried to dump the openSER request / responses to the log file to check the message sequence. However, the log statement in the onreply_route[1] will dump the responses received by openSER from callee, . How can I dump the responses that openSER proxy back to caller (after modifying via field) ?
route { t_on_reply("1"); ... }
route[1] { xlog("L_INFO","\n\n$Cbg[ Method $rm from $si ]$Cxx\n$mb$Cbg[ End of Request ]$Cxx\n"); if (!t_relay()) { xlog("replay error"); sl_reply_error(); }; exit; }
onreply_route[1] { xlog("L_INFO","\n\n$Cbg[ Method $rm from $si ]$Cxx\n$mb$Cbg[ End of Request ]$Cxx\n"); }
From: Ovidiu Sas Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 9:04 AM To: Henning Westerholt Cc: Ali Soltani ; users Subject: Re: [Kamailio-Users] openSER with 200 cps
Also, from the sipp script, after how much time the 200ok is sent after the 180 was sent? Do you let any ring time at all in your script?
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Henning Westerholt henning.westerholt@1und1.de wrote:
On Tue, August 12, 2008 11:33 pm, Ali Soltani wrote:
I am analyzing a simple scenario of SIP message exchanges for call setup between two SIP end-point and a sip proxy. The SIP signaling messages for call setup are exchanged between two SIP end-points (using SIPp uac and uas) via the openSER intermediary proxy.
Caller Callee SIPp-UAC --> openSER --> SIPp-UAS
No delay has been set between 180, 200 responses messages sent by callee (SIPp-UAS). After using SIPp to create more than 200 cps, openSER starts sending messages out of order (sending 200 before 180). This causes all calls to fail.
Hi Ali,
do you get any error messages in the log files this time? What version of OpenSER do you use? Do you do any database lookups or some other resource intensive operations in your configuration? What is the load of the machine when the problems starts to appear?
Cheers,
Henning
Users mailing list Users@lists.kamailio.org http://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
Try to use 5000 ms in between the 180 and the 200 OK and see if the problem still persist. kamailio is a multiprocess application and some replies to the same method can be handled by different processes, and therefore there's no guarantee that the message sequence will be preserved. Another thing that you can try is to use a single listener. This should preserve the message sequence as each reply will be handled by the same process.
Regards, Ovidiu Sas
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Ali Soltani mail@alirsm.com wrote:
Hi,
I am not getting any error message in the openSER log file. No database lookups or any intensive operations. OpenSER is simply relay the traffic. Machine load is only few %, more than 90% idle. I have tried 0, 200 msec, 500 msec pause time between 180 and 200. The problem still exists.
I also tried to dump the openSER request / responses to the log file to check the message sequence. However, the log statement in the onreply_route[1] will dump the responses received by openSER from callee, . How can I dump the responses that openSER proxy back to caller (after modifying via field) ?
route { t_on_reply("1"); ... }
route[1] { xlog("L_INFO","\n\n$Cbg[ Method $rm from $si ]$Cxx\n$mb$Cbg[ End of Request ]$Cxx\n"); if (!t_relay()) { xlog("replay error"); sl_reply_error(); }; exit; } onreply_route[1] { xlog("L_INFO","\n\n$Cbg[ Method $rm from $si ]$Cxx\n$mb$Cbg[ End of Request ]$Cxx\n"); }
From: Ovidiu Sas Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 9:04 AM To: Henning Westerholt Cc: Ali Soltani ; users Subject: Re: [Kamailio-Users] openSER with 200 cps Also, from the sipp script, after how much time the 200ok is sent after the 180 was sent? Do you let any ring time at all in your script?
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Henning Westerholt henning.westerholt@1und1.de wrote:
On Tue, August 12, 2008 11:33 pm, Ali Soltani wrote:
I am analyzing a simple scenario of SIP message exchanges for call setup between two SIP end-point and a sip proxy. The SIP signaling messages for call setup are exchanged between two SIP end-points (using SIPp uac and uas) via the openSER intermediary proxy.
Caller Callee SIPp-UAC --> openSER --> SIPp-UAS
No delay has been set between 180, 200 responses messages sent by callee (SIPp-UAS). After using SIPp to create more than 200 cps, openSER starts sending messages out of order (sending 200 before 180). This causes all calls to fail.
Hi Ali,
do you get any error messages in the log files this time? What version of OpenSER do you use? Do you do any database lookups or some other resource intensive operations in your configuration? What is the load of the machine when the problems starts to appear?
Cheers,
Henning
Users mailing list Users@lists.kamailio.org http://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
Try the same config removing the xlogs statements. I've seen in several deployments that logging is quite resource demanding and may cause the behaviour you are seeing.
Some versions of SIPp had unreliable behaviour when the cpp was high (I think 200cpp enters this level) so before entering into kamailio/openser/opensips/ser issues capture the traffic and watch whether SIPp sends the messages in the correct order.
hope it helps,
Samuel.
2008/8/13 Ali Soltani mail@alirsm.com
Hi,
I am not getting any error message in the openSER log file. No database lookups or any intensive operations. OpenSER is simply relay the traffic. Machine load is only few %, more than 90% idle. I have tried 0, 200 msec, 500 msec pause time between 180 and 200. The problem still exists.
I also tried to dump the openSER request / responses to the log file to check the message sequence. However, the log statement in the onreply_route[1] will dump the responses received by openSER from callee, . How can I dump the responses that openSER proxy back to caller (after modifying via field) ?
route { t_on_reply("1"); ... }
route[1] { xlog("L_INFO","\n\n$Cbg[ Method $rm from $si ]$Cxx\n$mb$Cbg[ End of Request ]$Cxx\n"); if (!t_relay()) { xlog("replay error"); sl_reply_error(); }; exit; } onreply_route[1] { xlog("L_INFO","\n\n$Cbg[ Method $rm from $si ]$Cxx\n$mb$Cbg[ End of Request ]$Cxx\n"); }
*From:* Ovidiu Sas osas@voipembedded.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 13, 2008 9:04 AM *To:* Henning Westerholt henning.westerholt@1und1.de *Cc:* Ali Soltani mail@alirsm.com ; users users@lists.kamailio.net *Subject:* Re: [Kamailio-Users] openSER with 200 cps
Also, from the sipp script, after how much time the 200ok is sent after the 180 was sent? Do you let any ring time at all in your script?
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Henning Westerholt henning.westerholt@1und1.de wrote:
On Tue, August 12, 2008 11:33 pm, Ali Soltani wrote:
I am analyzing a simple scenario of SIP message exchanges for call setup between two SIP end-point and a sip proxy. The SIP signaling messages
for
call setup are exchanged between two SIP end-points (using SIPp uac and uas) via the openSER intermediary proxy.
Caller Callee SIPp-UAC --> openSER --> SIPp-UAS
No delay has been set between 180, 200 responses messages sent by callee (SIPp-UAS). After using SIPp to create more than 200 cps, openSER
starts
sending messages out of order (sending 200 before 180). This causes all calls to fail.
Hi Ali,
do you get any error messages in the log files this time? What version of OpenSER do you use? Do you do any database lookups or some other resource intensive operations in your configuration? What is the load of the machine when the problems starts to appear?
Cheers,
Henning
Users mailing list Users@lists.kamailio.org http://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
Users mailing list Users@lists.kamailio.org http://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
Hello,
On 08/12/08 20:47, Alex Balashov wrote:
Do you have a general sense of the general price range in which the dues for associate members will fall?
a quick operational expenses estimation for the first year brought up the figure of ~3000Euro, that includes the expenses for creating the foundation, two hosted servers (one main, one backup), domain names and trademark registrations. The costs regarding TM registration expenses (US&EU) are not yet very clear to me, maybe someone can shed some light if he/she did it recently.
What will be extra will be used to pay seasonly some admin to keep the servers up to date and secure, support events about project.
Based on above figures, the membership fees should be like: - 100Euro/year for individual members - 500Euro/year for companies
Cheers, Daniel
Daniel-Constantin Mierla wrote:
On 08/12/08 20:47, Alex Balashov wrote:
Do you have a general sense of the general price range in which the dues for associate members will fall?
a quick operational expenses estimation for the first year brought up the figure of ~3000Euro, that includes the expenses for creating the foundation, two hosted servers (one main, one backup), domain names and trademark registrations. The costs regarding TM registration expenses (US&EU) are not yet very clear to me, maybe someone can shed some light if he/she did it recently.
What will be extra will be used to pay seasonly some admin to keep the servers up to date and secure, support events about project.
Based on above figures, the membership fees should be like:
- 100Euro/year for individual members
- 500Euro/year for companies
That's high. It's actually a rather bad figure, psychologically, in the sense that it is too high for some very small companies (some of the ones most enthusiastic about the use of OpenSER) to be able to bear (believe me, in the up-and-down, feast-or-famine that is the one or two-man show consulting business, $62 USD/mo, which is what EU500/year works out to, is a serious expense to be carefully controlled). And for more established to mid-size companies, while easily affordable, it is not a sum they would deem worthwhile to pay to be a member of some foundation of something that is fundamentally free. They'd much rather just leave it to everyone else to support it. It's a lot like the prisoner's dilemma.
Personally, I think you should make it EU25/year for individuals and EU100/year for companies. You'll get a lot more contributing members that way, since that is an amount that, from a psychological perspective, many many more people would be willing to pony up. ("$12/mo? Sure, whatever.")
You should also make sure that you allow the option of paying monthly instead of collecting the dues up-front. This gets you a recurring - if amortised - income stream that you can count on more, and it further greatly increases the amount of people willing to pay, because $10-$20/mo has a lot less psychological impact than $150, "RIGHT NOW!"
I cannot speak for the European dimension of the community, but I can say that Americans, at least, are generally very reluctant to part with nontrivial sums of money, even for things that they theoretically support and wholeheartedly endorse conceptually. It is best to find ways to diffuse the issue by making the amounts small but steady, rather than large and thought-provoking.
-- Alex
Hello,
On 08/13/08 03:57, Alex Balashov wrote:
Daniel-Constantin Mierla wrote:
On 08/12/08 20:47, Alex Balashov wrote:
Do you have a general sense of the general price range in which the dues for associate members will fall?
a quick operational expenses estimation for the first year brought up the figure of ~3000Euro, that includes the expenses for creating the foundation, two hosted servers (one main, one backup), domain names and trademark registrations. The costs regarding TM registration expenses (US&EU) are not yet very clear to me, maybe someone can shed some light if he/she did it recently.
What will be extra will be used to pay seasonly some admin to keep the servers up to date and secure, support events about project.
Based on above figures, the membership fees should be like:
- 100Euro/year for individual members
- 500Euro/year for companies
That's high. It's actually a rather bad figure, psychologically, in the sense that it is too high for some very small companies (some of the ones most enthusiastic about the use of OpenSER) to be able to bear (believe me, in the up-and-down, feast-or-famine that is the one or two-man show consulting business, $62 USD/mo, which is what EU500/year works out to, is a serious expense to be carefully controlled). And for more established to mid-size companies, while easily affordable, it is not a sum they would deem worthwhile to pay to be a member of some foundation of something that is fundamentally free. They'd much rather just leave it to everyone else to support it. It's a lot like the prisoner's dilemma.
Personally, I think you should make it EU25/year for individuals and EU100/year for companies. You'll get a lot more contributing members that way, since that is an amount that, from a psychological perspective, many many more people would be willing to pony up. ("$12/mo? Sure, whatever.")
You should also make sure that you allow the option of paying monthly instead of collecting the dues up-front. This gets you a recurring - if amortised - income stream that you can count on more, and it further greatly increases the amount of people willing to pay, because $10-$20/mo has a lot less psychological impact than $150, "RIGHT NOW!"
I cannot speak for the European dimension of the community, but I can say that Americans, at least, are generally very reluctant to part with nontrivial sums of money, even for things that they theoretically support and wholeheartedly endorse conceptually. It is best to find ways to diffuse the issue by making the amounts small but steady, rather than large and thought-provoking.
making a difference between small, medium or large companies will make things evolve heavily in the beginning. I am sure there will be updates and differences in time if there is interest and members get to that conclusion. Now we work on creating the root of this foundation, so we can get members that work on enhancing the environment around it.
Also is hard to evaluate properly the size of the company. We have been looking at other foundations of open source projects, investigating the reasons behind the fees, overload of doing monthly/yearly/long term subscriptions/management.
A company can participate as individual member by delegating a person to represent and get listed there. We look to keep things simple for now, without much administrative load that will make the expenses increase. Practically, board members just volunteer by now to do the job, the income will be used for supporting the infrastructure -- the companies that provide the two servers now, they sponsor at least 500Eur per year each.
The figures try to be affordable even for small companies, by individuals. Of course, nothing is nailed down, these discussions shall get us to a point where we have the results most of us agree and then proceed.
Cheers, Daniel
-- Alex
Sounds about right to me - and something that i/we can afford...
cheers ********************************************** Mahesh Paolini-Subramanya (703) 386-1500 x9100 CTO mahesh@aptela.com Aptela, Inc. http://www.aptela.com "Aptela: How Business Answers The Call" **********************************************
On Aug 12, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Daniel-Constantin Mierla wrote:
Hello,
On 08/12/08 20:47, Alex Balashov wrote:
Do you have a general sense of the general price range in which the dues for associate members will fall?
a quick operational expenses estimation for the first year brought up the figure of ~3000Euro, that includes the expenses for creating the foundation, two hosted servers (one main, one backup), domain names and trademark registrations. The costs regarding TM registration expenses (US&EU) are not yet very clear to me, maybe someone can shed some light if he/she did it recently.
What will be extra will be used to pay seasonly some admin to keep the servers up to date and secure, support events about project.
Based on above figures, the membership fees should be like:
- 100Euro/year for individual members
- 500Euro/year for companies
Cheers, Daniel
-- Daniel-Constantin Mierla http://www.asipto.com
Business mailing list Business@lists.kamailio.org http://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/business
-
Alex Balashov -
Ali Soltani -
Bogdan-Andrei Iancu -
Daniel-Constantin Mierla -
G.O. Jensen -
Henning Westerholt -
Mahesh Paolini-Subramanya -
Ovidiu Sas -
samuel