I believe It is unlawful act and there must be some regulation, I am not talking here that it will become known very well and this provider will lost some customers... and some other provider will claim that they voip friendly and get some more customer on it :-) ________________________________ From: serusers-bounces(a)iptel.org [mailto:serusers-bounces@lists.iptel.org] On Behalf Of Cesc Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:32 PM To: Nils Ohlmeier Cc: serusers(a)lists.iptel.org; Roger Lewau; serusers-bounces(a)lists.iptel.org; Iqbal Subject: Re: [Serusers] voip charging by ISP's Well, i think the ISP may care if they are also providing similar bussiness. They won't probably be able to charge neither the voip user or voip provider, but they can do some harm. Identifying the rtp streams and sip signalling is not sooo difficult ... then, block a few messages, add delay and jitter to the rtp (or udp in general ...) and you've got a bad service, aparently coming from the voip provider. There is software to detect and do all the above (one was presented in VON this fall) ... There was an article in IEEE Spectrum (sept, october, nov ... can't remember). And all the tricks Nils mentions ... hey, maybe the advanced user, but my mom, no way! And then you need software that supports all those tricks ... that is even further away. In this sense, i think carriers have the winning side ... Regards, Cesc On 11/2/05, Nils Ohlmeier <lists(a)ohlmeier.org> wrote: On Wednesday 02 November 2005 14:28, Iqbal wrote: I think the ISP should not care what it is transporting. The snail mail also does not look into what they are devlivering to charge you differently (except express delivery but thats another story). As soon as an ISP starts to look into the traffic from the user, the users will invent uncounted ways of fooling the ISP (use non-standard ports; use standard ports for the "wrong" service; use proxies; encrypt the traffic; and finally combine all this). All I can say to the ISP: happy debugging! And in the end I would be interested in how a court would judge about the outcoming bills (who has to prove what?) :-) Nils _______________________________________________ Serusers mailing list serusers(a)lists.iptel.org http://lists.iptel.org/mailman/listinfo/serusers