Hi

Another day of going back and forth, feel sorry for the poor newbie who might have signed up for this mailing list, and realized he'd was standing in no mans land between too factions who had dug deep into their trenches....

I cant recall the names of who posted what, and who wants what, but I think a summation, together with some sort of action towards an outcome, is really needed, so I'll try, and please add to it.

1. There is a definant call for two modes, one stable and one more fast paced for those who like to try out new things a) A mode where these two can be linked is required, someone suggested maintaining two threads in CVS, b) do you need to mailing lists, yes/no c) Do you need two websites yes/no d) Should iptel be inherently linked with SER, as most users think, or should their be a non-biased site, I think since SER has its own name, why not use something based upon that, just as other opensource has, if companies wish to sponser, add there name etc, then they should be allowed by the maintainers discretion

2. Documentation, yes it is poor, but that means it can only get better , or at least the way I look at it, a)Who maintains it, is there a overwhelming need for help on this, if so, can we not on the website above, include a link for those who would like to help contribute, and then set some standards as to how it needs to be done etc b) Informal documentation, I think sites such as onsip etc have started something good, and many users will eventually have their own websites etc, with tips and tricks, however if this could also be added to in one place it would be good for the newbie, maybe a wiki, maybe onsip.

3. Working together, now this is a tricky one, since no matter how we look at it, SER seems to be splitting (unless I am misreading the posts), which means even in theory if we want to make it work like i did, its just wont, and we need to accept that, its growing and people want/wish to do it there way, and I guess the compromise is in 1, above. No matter how many emails go back and forth, going back to what it was is not possible, cause human nature will not allow it.

4. Justification and blame, well I think alot of that has happened, and as a user, since I dont know all the details I cannot really comment, except to say, that I am sure its all justified, and everyone is too blame :-), but its time too move on, it was a project and like all projects starts a little chaotically, and somewhere down the line a radical shake up needs to be done, this also happens in companies, trust me I have built quite a few, the casual working modes are dropped for a formal approach, suddenly hand written scraps of paper are no longer acceptable, everything needs to have 3 signatures on it...such is life. I guess this is what SER is going through, and maybe this is what it needs, who's fault it is, or who realized a change is required is irrelevant, but without change I think SER will not work, simply because some of the core team want a change, and you cannot argue with that. Soooo write down what is needed take a vote, ask a few users what they think, and lets get it done.

As a side note, I hope the above doesn't seem biased one way or the other, it is not meant to, its meant to get things moving and a decision reached, before everyone goes on holiday, and starts smoking a pipe of peace....without having invited me.

Iqbal