15 Jun
2006
15 Jun
'06
5:35 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:33 PM
To: devel(a)openser.org
Cc: users(a)openser.org
Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Douglas Garstang wrote:
bad, and that it should
be maintained by the developers interesting?
Its not your opinion on the documentation that i find interesting, its
how you characterize your dislike for the documentation (and repeated
expression of it)
In my opinion, if you are able to use an application you are able to
document how you use it.
I am not a C developer however i have contributed to the
documentation,
and i believe it is with this type of action that Open Source
communities become strong (contribution).
Having someone constantly express what they don't like about
the project
yet do little else to effect change in it serves no positive or
productive purpose
OpenSER is an excellent application and i am proud to be a part of its
community. A community that responds to impatience and contempt with
patience and wisdom
Please help us keep this community healthy because in the end it
benefits us all (in more ways that i can count)
Demanding that others solve perceived issues is generally not a good
approach (unless you are dealing with a commercial entity and has a
professional responsibility to you)
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with relying on documentation that's
badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made assumptions about what they
thought they knew... because they in turn relied upon someone else who had made the same
mistakes. The reason the chain of events got started in the first place was because people
played around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:04 PM
> Cc: devel(a)openser.org; users(a)openser.org
> Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
>
>
> Juha Heinanen wrote:
>
>> Douglas Garstang writes:
>>
>> > My comments are constructive. I've constructively
stated
several
>> > times that the documentation is
very bad. Each time I've
>>
> made this
>
>> > constructive comment, I've been attacked. In my previous
>>
> post, I made
>
>> > another constructive comment. I said that maybe the reason the
>> > documentation is so bad is that the project isn't that old.
>>
>> rather that complaining, learn to read the relevant pieces
>>
> of code and
>
>> write better documentation.
>>
>> -- juha
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Devel mailing list
>> Devel(a)openser.org
>> http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I find it interesting that you would characterize your
statements as
"constructive" and the responses you've received as "attacks"
I believe this may be one of the central issues
Why do you consider my opinion that the documentation is 
15 Jun
15 Jun
5:43 p.m.
New subject: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Why are we wasting our time replying to this...
Unless your next message is an offering of this so called "well written"
documentation or a donation of funds, move on to some other piece of
software that meets your needs.
-Sumeet
From: "Douglas Garstang"
<dgarstang(a)oneeighty.com>
To: "Tavis P" <tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net>,<devel@openser.org>
CC: users(a)openser.org
Subject: RE: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:35:37 -0600
_________________________________________________________________
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-----Original Message-----
From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:33 PM
To: devel(a)openser.org
Cc: users(a)openser.org
Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Douglas Garstang wrote:
bad, and that it should
be maintained by the developers interesting?
Its not your opinion on the documentation that i find interesting, its
how you characterize your dislike for the documentation (and repeated
expression of it)
In my opinion, if you are able to use an application you are able to
document how you use it.
I am not a C developer however i have contributed to the
documentation,
and i believe it is with this type of action that Open Source
communities become strong (contribution).
Having someone constantly express what they don't like about
the project
yet do little else to effect change in it serves no positive or
productive purpose
OpenSER is an excellent application and i am proud to be a part of its
community. A community that responds to impatience and contempt with
patience and wisdom
Please help us keep this community healthy because in the end it
benefits us all (in more ways that i can count)
Demanding that others solve perceived issues is generally not a good
approach (unless you are dealing with a commercial entity and has a
professional responsibility to you)
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with relying on documentation
that's badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made
assumptions about what they thought they knew... because they in turn
relied upon someone else who had made the same mistakes. The reason the
chain of events got started in the first place was because people played
around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
_______________________________________________
Devel mailing list
Devel(a)openser.org
http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel > -----Original Message-----
> From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:04 PM
> Cc: devel(a)openser.org; users(a)openser.org
> Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
>
>
> Juha Heinanen wrote:
>
>> Douglas Garstang writes:
>>
>> > My comments are constructive. I've constructively
stated
several
>> > times that the documentation is
very bad. Each time I've
>>
> made this
>
>> > constructive comment, I've been attacked. In my previous
>>
> post, I made
>
>> > another constructive comment. I said that maybe the reason the
>> > documentation is so bad is that the project isn't that old.
>>
>> rather that complaining, learn to read the relevant pieces
>>
> of code and
>
>> write better documentation.
>>
>> -- juha
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Devel mailing list
>> Devel(a)openser.org
>> http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I find it interesting that you would characterize your
statements as
"constructive" and the responses you've received as "attacks"
I believe this may be one of the central issues
Why do you consider my opinion that the documentation is 
5:48 p.m.
New subject: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
You see ... this kind of discussion are mostly started (IMHO) by
people who don't understand the process of open source ... (somehow
... it brought me back memories of a Harry G. ... do you guys
remember? :D )
If you want nice documentation, probably even more features and a nice
and easy configuration ... go commercial ... but prepare your check
book.
If you want something that works, not so good documentation, source
code you can inspect and modify and CONTRIBUTE ... and that overall
... it is for FREE ... go open source.
It is not that your opinion is not welcome ... but consider that
people donate their time to the community for the greater good ... if
you come up with real "constructive" opinions ... do it ... you can
propose what you don't like in the docus, what do you miss and
contribute content to it ... you are more than welcome. Hey, you may
even become an open source hero! ;)
Regards,
Cesc
On 6/15/06, Douglas Garstang <dgarstang(a)oneeighty.com> wrote:
-----Original
Message-----
From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:33 PM
To: devel(a)openser.org
Cc: users(a)openser.org
Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Douglas Garstang wrote:
bad, and that it should
be maintained by the developers interesting?
Its not your opinion on the documentation that i find interesting, its
how you characterize your dislike for the documentation (and repeated
expression of it)
In my opinion, if you are able to use an application you are able to
document how you use it.
I am not a C developer however i have contributed to the
documentation,
and i believe it is with this type of action that Open Source
communities become strong (contribution).
Having someone constantly express what they don't like about
the project
yet do little else to effect change in it serves no positive or
productive purpose
OpenSER is an excellent application and i am proud to be a part of its
community. A community that responds to impatience and contempt with
patience and wisdom
Please help us keep this community healthy because in the end it
benefits us all (in more ways that i can count)
Demanding that others solve perceived issues is generally not a good
approach (unless you are dealing with a commercial entity and has a
professional responsibility to you)
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with relying on documentation that's
badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made assumptions about what they
thought they knew... because they in turn relied upon someone else who had made the same
mistakes. The reason the chain of events got started in the first place was because people
played around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
_______________________________________________
Devel mailing list
Devel(a)openser.org
http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:04 PM
> Cc: devel(a)openser.org; users(a)openser.org
> Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
>
>
> Juha Heinanen wrote:
>
>> Douglas Garstang writes:
>>
>> > My comments are constructive. I've constructively
stated
several
>> > times that the documentation is
very bad. Each time I've
>>
> made this
>
>> > constructive comment, I've been attacked. In my previous
>>
> post, I made
>
>> > another constructive comment. I said that maybe the reason the
>> > documentation is so bad is that the project isn't that old.
>>
>> rather that complaining, learn to read the relevant pieces
>>
> of code and
>
>> write better documentation.
>>
>> -- juha
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Devel mailing list
>> Devel(a)openser.org
>> http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I find it interesting that you would characterize your
statements as
"constructive" and the responses you've received as "attacks"
I believe this may be one of the central issues
Why do you consider my opinion that the documentation is 
5:48 p.m.
New subject: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Douglas Garstang wrote:
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with relying on documentation that's
badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made assumptions about what they
thought they knew... because they in turn relied upon someone else who had made the same
mistakes. The reason the chain of events got started in the first place was because people
played around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)openser.org
http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
Hey, it's for free! Would you ask ur neighbor to share with u his car,
just because he parks it on the street?
5:57 p.m.
New subject: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Douglas Garstang wrote:
Ok
However, if you expect any results i would recommend a change of
approach because i get the impression that even the most patient of us
here are feeling abused
-----Original
Message-----
From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:33 PM
To: devel(a)openser.org
Cc: users(a)openser.org
Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Douglas Garstang wrote:
bad, and that it should be maintained by the developers interesting?
Its not your opinion on the documentation that i find interesting, its
how you characterize your dislike for the documentation (and repeated
expression of it)
In my opinion, if you are able to use an application you are able to
document how you use it.
I am not a C developer however i have contributed to the
documentation,
and i believe it is with this type of action that Open Source
communities become strong (contribution).
Having someone constantly express what they don't like about
the project
yet do little else to effect change in it serves no positive or
productive purpose
OpenSER is an excellent application and i am proud to be a part of its
community. A community that responds to impatience and contempt with
patience and wisdom
Please help us keep this community healthy because in the end it
benefits us all (in more ways that i can count)
Demanding that others solve perceived issues is generally not a good
approach (unless you are dealing with a commercial entity and has a
professional responsibility to you)
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with relying on documentation that's
badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made assumptions about what they
thought they knew... because they in turn relied upon someone else who had made the same
mistakes. The reason the chain of events got started in the first place was because people
played around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:04 PM
> Cc: devel(a)openser.org; users(a)openser.org
> Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
>
>
> Juha Heinanen wrote:
>
>
>> Douglas Garstang writes:
>>
>> > My comments are constructive. I've constructively
>>
stated several
>> > times that the documentation is
very bad. Each time I've
>>
>>
> made this
>
>
>> > constructive comment, I've been attacked. In my previous
>>
>>
> post, I made
>
>
>> > another constructive comment. I said that maybe the reason the
>> > documentation is so bad is that the project isn't that old.
>>
>> rather that complaining, learn to read the relevant pieces
>>
>>
> of code and
>
>
>> write better documentation.
>>
>> -- juha
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Devel mailing list
>> Devel(a)openser.org
>> http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I find it interesting that you would characterize your
>
statements as
"constructive" and the responses you've received as "attacks"
I believe this may be one of the central issues
Why do you consider my opinion that the documentation is
9:15 p.m.
New subject: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Douglas,
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with
relying on documentation
that's badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made
assumptions about what they thought they knew... because they in turn
relied upon someone else who had made the same mistakes. The reason the
chain of events got started in the first place was because people played
around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
I strongly suggest to close this thread now. We all know that you don't
like the documentation.
Christian
6742
days inactive
6742
days old
6 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Cesc -
Christian Schlatter -
Douglas Garstang -
Gill Bates -
olivier.taylor -
Sumeet Gupta -
Tavis P