-----Original Message----- From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:33 PM To: devel@openser.org Cc: users@openser.org Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Douglas Garstang wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:04 PM Cc: devel@openser.org; users@openser.org Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Juha Heinanen wrote:
Douglas Garstang writes:
My comments are constructive. I've constructively
stated several
times that the documentation is very bad. Each time I've
made this
constructive comment, I've been attacked. In my previous
post, I made
another constructive comment. I said that maybe the reason the documentation is so bad is that the project isn't that old.
rather that complaining, learn to read the relevant pieces
of code and
write better documentation.
-- juha
Devel mailing list Devel@openser.org http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
I find it interesting that you would characterize your
statements as
"constructive" and the responses you've received as "attacks"
I believe this may be one of the central issues
Why do you consider my opinion that the documentation is
bad, and that it should be maintained by the developers interesting?
Its not your opinion on the documentation that i find interesting, its how you characterize your dislike for the documentation (and repeated expression of it)
In my opinion, if you are able to use an application you are able to document how you use it. I am not a C developer however i have contributed to the documentation, and i believe it is with this type of action that Open Source communities become strong (contribution). Having someone constantly express what they don't like about the project yet do little else to effect change in it serves no positive or productive purpose
OpenSER is an excellent application and i am proud to be a part of its community. A community that responds to impatience and contempt with patience and wisdom Please help us keep this community healthy because in the end it benefits us all (in more ways that i can count)
Demanding that others solve perceived issues is generally not a good approach (unless you are dealing with a commercial entity and has a professional responsibility to you)
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with relying on documentation that's badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made assumptions about what they thought they knew... because they in turn relied upon someone else who had made the same mistakes. The reason the chain of events got started in the first place was because people played around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
Why are we wasting our time replying to this...
Unless your next message is an offering of this so called "well written" documentation or a donation of funds, move on to some other piece of software that meets your needs.
-Sumeet
From: "Douglas Garstang" dgarstang@oneeighty.com To: "Tavis P" tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net,devel@openser.org CC: users@openser.org Subject: RE: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:35:37 -0600
-----Original Message----- From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:33 PM To: devel@openser.org Cc: users@openser.org Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Douglas Garstang wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:04 PM Cc: devel@openser.org; users@openser.org Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Juha Heinanen wrote:
Douglas Garstang writes:
My comments are constructive. I've constructively
stated several
times that the documentation is very bad. Each time I've
made this
constructive comment, I've been attacked. In my previous
post, I made
another constructive comment. I said that maybe the reason the documentation is so bad is that the project isn't that old.
rather that complaining, learn to read the relevant pieces
of code and
write better documentation.
-- juha
Devel mailing list Devel@openser.org http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
I find it interesting that you would characterize your
statements as
"constructive" and the responses you've received as "attacks"
I believe this may be one of the central issues
Why do you consider my opinion that the documentation is
bad, and that it should be maintained by the developers interesting?
Its not your opinion on the documentation that i find interesting, its how you characterize your dislike for the documentation (and repeated expression of it)
In my opinion, if you are able to use an application you are able to document how you use it. I am not a C developer however i have contributed to the documentation, and i believe it is with this type of action that Open Source communities become strong (contribution). Having someone constantly express what they don't like about the project yet do little else to effect change in it serves no positive or productive purpose
OpenSER is an excellent application and i am proud to be a part of its community. A community that responds to impatience and contempt with patience and wisdom Please help us keep this community healthy because in the end it benefits us all (in more ways that i can count)
Demanding that others solve perceived issues is generally not a good approach (unless you are dealing with a commercial entity and has a professional responsibility to you)
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with relying on documentation that's badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made assumptions about what they thought they knew... because they in turn relied upon someone else who had made the same mistakes. The reason the chain of events got started in the first place was because people played around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
Devel mailing list Devel@openser.org http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
_________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
You see ... this kind of discussion are mostly started (IMHO) by people who don't understand the process of open source ... (somehow ... it brought me back memories of a Harry G. ... do you guys remember? :D )
If you want nice documentation, probably even more features and a nice and easy configuration ... go commercial ... but prepare your check book. If you want something that works, not so good documentation, source code you can inspect and modify and CONTRIBUTE ... and that overall ... it is for FREE ... go open source.
It is not that your opinion is not welcome ... but consider that people donate their time to the community for the greater good ... if you come up with real "constructive" opinions ... do it ... you can propose what you don't like in the docus, what do you miss and contribute content to it ... you are more than welcome. Hey, you may even become an open source hero! ;)
Regards,
Cesc
On 6/15/06, Douglas Garstang dgarstang@oneeighty.com wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:33 PM To: devel@openser.org Cc: users@openser.org Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Douglas Garstang wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:04 PM Cc: devel@openser.org; users@openser.org Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Juha Heinanen wrote:
Douglas Garstang writes:
My comments are constructive. I've constructively
stated several
times that the documentation is very bad. Each time I've
made this
constructive comment, I've been attacked. In my previous
post, I made
another constructive comment. I said that maybe the reason the documentation is so bad is that the project isn't that old.
rather that complaining, learn to read the relevant pieces
of code and
write better documentation.
-- juha
Devel mailing list Devel@openser.org http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
I find it interesting that you would characterize your
statements as
"constructive" and the responses you've received as "attacks"
I believe this may be one of the central issues
Why do you consider my opinion that the documentation is
bad, and that it should be maintained by the developers interesting?
Its not your opinion on the documentation that i find interesting, its how you characterize your dislike for the documentation (and repeated expression of it)
In my opinion, if you are able to use an application you are able to document how you use it. I am not a C developer however i have contributed to the documentation, and i believe it is with this type of action that Open Source communities become strong (contribution). Having someone constantly express what they don't like about the project yet do little else to effect change in it serves no positive or productive purpose
OpenSER is an excellent application and i am proud to be a part of its community. A community that responds to impatience and contempt with patience and wisdom Please help us keep this community healthy because in the end it benefits us all (in more ways that i can count)
Demanding that others solve perceived issues is generally not a good approach (unless you are dealing with a commercial entity and has a professional responsibility to you)
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with relying on documentation that's badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made assumptions about what they thought they knew... because they in turn relied upon someone else who had made the same mistakes. The reason the chain of events got started in the first place was because people played around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
Devel mailing list Devel@openser.org http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
Douglas Garstang wrote:
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with relying on documentation that's badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made assumptions about what they thought they knew... because they in turn relied upon someone else who had made the same mistakes. The reason the chain of events got started in the first place was because people played around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
Users mailing list Users@openser.org http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
Hey, it's for free! Would you ask ur neighbor to share with u his car, just because he parks it on the street?
Douglas Garstang wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:33 PM To: devel@openser.org Cc: users@openser.org Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Douglas Garstang wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Tavis P [mailto:tavis.lists@galaxytelecom.net] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:04 PM Cc: devel@openser.org; users@openser.org Subject: Re: [Devel] RE: [Users] OpenSER - one year old
Juha Heinanen wrote:
Douglas Garstang writes:
My comments are constructive. I've constructively
stated several
times that the documentation is very bad. Each time I've
made this
constructive comment, I've been attacked. In my previous
post, I made
another constructive comment. I said that maybe the reason the documentation is so bad is that the project isn't that old.
rather that complaining, learn to read the relevant pieces
of code and
write better documentation.
-- juha
Devel mailing list Devel@openser.org http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devel
I find it interesting that you would characterize your
statements as
"constructive" and the responses you've received as "attacks"
I believe this may be one of the central issues
Why do you consider my opinion that the documentation is
bad, and that it should be maintained by the developers interesting?
Its not your opinion on the documentation that i find interesting, its how you characterize your dislike for the documentation (and repeated expression of it)
In my opinion, if you are able to use an application you are able to document how you use it. I am not a C developer however i have contributed to the documentation, and i believe it is with this type of action that Open Source communities become strong (contribution). Having someone constantly express what they don't like about the project yet do little else to effect change in it serves no positive or productive purpose
OpenSER is an excellent application and i am proud to be a part of its community. A community that responds to impatience and contempt with patience and wisdom Please help us keep this community healthy because in the end it benefits us all (in more ways that i can count)
Demanding that others solve perceived issues is generally not a good approach (unless you are dealing with a commercial entity and has a professional responsibility to you)
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with relying on documentation that's badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made assumptions about what they thought they knew... because they in turn relied upon someone else who had made the same mistakes. The reason the chain of events got started in the first place was because people played around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
Ok
However, if you expect any results i would recommend a change of approach because i get the impression that even the most patient of us here are feeling abused
Douglas,
Sorry, but I disagree with you. I'm fed up with relying on documentation that's badly written or wrong, because the person who wrote it made assumptions about what they thought they knew... because they in turn relied upon someone else who had made the same mistakes. The reason the chain of events got started in the first place was because people played around, experimated, tinkered, etc, and came to incorrect conclusions.
I strongly suggest to close this thread now. We all know that you don't like the documentation.
Christian
-
Cesc -
Christian Schlatter -
Douglas Garstang -
Gill Bates -
olivier.taylor -
Sumeet Gupta -
Tavis P