12 Jun
2008
12 Jun
'08
6:06 p.m.
Hello all,
Now I got a question: I understand that sometimes, when a UAC droppes
out of the internet, a BYE message will be lost. But, if I were to use
Openser as a Carrier switch, this is NOT supposed to happen, right? as all
VoIP Carriers MUST be on the internet permanently.
Any thoughts?
David
12 Jun
12 Jun
6:15 p.m.
Hola David,
Now I got a question: I understand that
sometimes, when a UAC
droppes out of the internet, a BYE message will be lost. But, if I
were to use Openser as a Carrier switch, this is NOT supposed to
happen, right? as all VoIP Carriers MUST be on the internet
permanently.
Any thoughts?
Yes. Some times things break, internet connectivity is lost, backbone
loops happen, etc, etc...
Saludos
JesusR.
------------------------------------
Jesus Rodriguez
VozTelecom Sistemas, S.L.
jesusr(a)voztele.com
http://www.voztele.com
Tel. 902360305
-------------------------------------
6:38 p.m.
Then...
Excuse my asking: What IS the point of doing accounting with openser,
if it will never be accurate?
david
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Jesus Rodriguez <jesusr(a)voztele.com> wrote:
Hola David,
Now I got a question: I understand that sometimes, when a UAC droppes
out of the internet, a BYE message will be lost.
But, if I were to use
Openser as a Carrier switch, this is NOT supposed to happen, right? as all
VoIP Carriers MUST be on the internet permanently.
Any thoughts?
Yes. Some times things break, internet connectivity is lost, backbone loops
happen, etc, etc...
Saludos
JesusR.
------------------------------------
Jesus Rodriguez
VozTelecom Sistemas, S.L.
jesusr(a)voztele.com
http://www.voztele.com
Tel. 902360305
-------------------------------------
6:48 p.m.
El Jueves, 12 de Junio de 2008 16:38, David Villasmil escribió:
Then...
Excuse my asking: What IS the point of doing accounting with openser,
if it will never be accurate?
david
Hi David, you should not rely only on OpenSer to do accounting, if you are
doing so .. you are in troubles.
In a normal scenario, accounting and billing is done taking information from
different sources and crosschecking it.
--
Saludos.
Raúl Alexis Betancor Santana
Dimensión Virtual S.L.
6:51 p.m.
Hola,
El Jueves, 12 de Junio de 2008 16:38, David Villasmil
escribió:
In fact the best place to obtain the accounting are the gateways (if
you own/manage them) but every time is more common to use third party
gateways and they usually do not send accounting to external
"collectors".
Saludos
JesusR.
------------------------------------
Jesus Rodriguez
VozTelecom Sistemas, S.L.
jesusr(a)voztele.com
http://www.voztele.com
Tel. 902360305
-------------------------------------
Then...
Excuse my asking: What IS the point of doing accounting with
openser,
if it will never be accurate?
david
Hi David, you should not rely only on OpenSer to do accounting, if
you are
doing so .. you are in troubles.
In a normal scenario, accounting and billing is done taking
information from
different sources and crosschecking it.
6:50 p.m.
Hola David,
Then...
Excuse my asking: What IS the point of doing accounting with
openser, if it will never be accurate?
The implementation of different "keepalive" methods like Session
Timers, OPTIONS in-dialog, stop receiving RTP (some gateways like
Cisco AS5xxx have an option to send a BYE if RTP is not received after
some specific time period), etc.
Yes, SIP was not designed keeping accounting in mind :-/
Saludos
JesusR.
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Jesus Rodriguez
<jesusr(a)voztele.com> wrote:
Hola David,
Now I got a question: I understand that sometimes, when a UAC
droppes out of the internet, a BYE message will be lost. But, if I
were to use Openser as a Carrier switch, this is NOT supposed to
happen, right? as all VoIP Carriers MUST be on the internet
permanently.
Any thoughts?
Yes. Some times things break, internet connectivity is lost,
backbone loops happen, etc, etc...
Saludos
JesusR.
------------------------------------
Jesus Rodriguez
VozTelecom Sistemas, S.L.
jesusr(a)voztele.com
http://www.voztele.com
Tel. 902360305
-------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)lists.openser.org
http://lists.openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
Saludos
JesusR.
------------------------------------
Jesus Rodriguez
VozTelecom Sistemas, S.L.
jesusr(a)voztele.com
http://www.voztele.com
Tel. 902360305
-------------------------------------
6:51 p.m.
El Thursday 12 June 2008 17:38:35 David Villasmil escribió:
Then...
Excuse my asking: What IS the point of doing accounting with openser,
if it will never be accurate?
That's not true. If you use OpenSer + Radius ACC + MediaProxy + CDRTool
(optional) you can get 99% accurate: if a UAC hangs down then it will not
send a BYE but neither RTP so MediaProxy will detect it and update vía Radius
or SQL.
Other way is using OpenSer ACC in conjunction with a B2BUA or gateways
supporting Session Timers. In this case, if the UAC crashes it will not
respond to the re-INVITE/UPDATE and the B2BUA/gateway will send a BYE so
OpenSer will account the session properly.
AFAIK those are the existintg ACC ways using accounting into a proxy.
--
Iñaki Baz Castillo
ibc(a)in.ilimit.es
7:03 p.m.
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc(a)in.ilimit.es>
wrote:
El Thursday 12 June 2008 17:38:35 David Villasmil
escribió:
In which case, we STILL depend on a third party NOT BEING openser...
Just a question:
Is there any plan to implement this? i.e. sending an OPTIONS to the UACs to
make sure they are online whilst in a call and ending the dialog if there is
not answer?
david
Then...
Excuse my asking: What IS the point of doing accounting with
openser,
if it will never be accurate?
That's not true. If you use OpenSer + Radius ACC + MediaProxy + CDRTool
(optional) you can get 99% accurate: if a UAC hangs down then it will not
send a BYE but neither RTP so MediaProxy will detect it and update vía
Radius
or SQL.
Other way is using OpenSer ACC in conjunction with a B2BUA or gateways
supporting Session Timers. In this case, if the UAC crashes it will not
respond to the re-INVITE/UPDATE and the B2BUA/gateway will send a BYE so
OpenSer will account the session properly.
AFAIK those are the existintg ACC ways using accounting into a proxy.
7:10 p.m.
El Thursday 12 June 2008 18:03:26 David Villasmil escribió:
Just a question:
Is there any plan to implement this? i.e. sending an OPTIONS to the UACs to
make sure they are online whilst in a call and ending the dialog if there
is not answer?
IMHO OpenSer is a very good SIP stateful proxy. Its aim is not being a
call-stateful proxy. Managing dialogs is more expensive (RAM, CPU) than
managing individual transactions so I'm not sure if OpenSer should control
dialog status.
But of course it's just my opinion.
--
Iñaki Baz Castillo
ibc(a)in.ilimit.es
7:15 p.m.
El Jueves, 12 de Junio de 2008 17:03, David Villasmil escribió:
In which case, we STILL depend on a third party NOT
BEING openser...
That is because with ONLY a proxy, you could not do accurate accounting, thats
all.
Just a question:
Is there any plan to implement this? i.e. sending an OPTIONS to the UACs to
make sure they are online whilst in a call and ending the dialog if there
is not answer?
That will not give you accurate results, as Jesus said "SIP was not developed
thinking on accounting", so .. for doing accounting with SIP you need to use
a bunch of tools together.
Why you don't want to use RTPProxies ?, I insists that if you do not control
de RTP path .. you could not do accurate accounting only with the signaling
path, not without having a lot of complains from your customers .. :-)
--
Saludos.
Raúl Alexis Betancor Santana
Dimensión Virtual S.L.
7:21 p.m.
El Thursday 12 June 2008 18:15:07 Raúl Alexis Betancor Santana escribió:
Why you don't want to use RTPProxies ?, I insists
that if you do not
control de RTP path .. you could not do accurate accounting only with the
signaling path, not without having a lot of complains from your customers
..
Imagine a bad SIP phone that replies 200 OK when receiving an in-dialog
OPTIONS even if the dialog doesn't exist.
There are too much bad SIP devices in the world to rely *just* on SIP
signalling for accounting purposes.
--
Iñaki Baz Castillo
ibc(a)in.ilimit.es
7:25 p.m.
Hola,
El Thursday 12 June 2008 18:15:07 Raúl Alexis Betancor
Santana
escribió:
Or other UA that answer with a 404 or 500 or 503 if the dialog exists
or not.
This thread seems the "spanish army" accounting support :-)
Saludos
JesusR.
------------------------------------
Jesus Rodriguez
VozTelecom Sistemas, S.L.
jesusr(a)voztele.com
http://www.voztele.com
Tel. 902360305
-------------------------------------
Why you don't want to use RTPProxies ?, I
insists that if you do not
control de RTP path .. you could not do accurate accounting only
with the
signaling path, not without having a lot of complains from your
customers
..
Imagine a bad SIP phone that replies 200 OK when receiving an in-
dialog
OPTIONS even if the dialog doesn't exist.
There are too much bad SIP devices in the world to rely *just* on SIP
signalling for accounting purposes.
7:59 p.m.
I was hoping that Bodgan would chip on this conversation...
:S
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc(a)in.ilimit.es>
wrote:
El Thursday 12 June 2008 18:25:28 Jesus Rodriguez
escribió:
This thread seems the "spanish army"
accounting support :-)
Doesn't exist a OpenSer spanish maillist? XDDDDD
What are we doing here speaking between us in English? XD
--
Iñaki Baz Castillo
ibc(a)in.ilimit.es
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)lists.openser.org
http://lists.openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
7:05 p.m.
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc(a)in.ilimit.es>
wrote:
El Thursday 12 June 2008 17:38:35 David Villasmil
escribió:
True, But this will also bring the added cost of handling rtps, right?
Then...
Excuse my asking: What IS the point of doing accounting with
openser,
if it will never be accurate?
That's not true. If you use OpenSer + Radius ACC + MediaProxy + CDRTool
(optional) you can get 99% accurate: if a UAC hangs down then it will not
send a BYE but neither RTP so MediaProxy will detect it and update vía
Radius
or SQL.
Other way is using OpenSer ACC in conjunction with a B2BUA or gateways
supporting Session Timers. In this case, if the UAC crashes it will not
respond to the re-INVITE/UPDATE and the B2BUA/gateway will send a BYE so
OpenSer will account the session properly.
AFAIK those are the existintg ACC ways using accounting into a proxy.
6:52 p.m.
On Thursday 12 June 2008, David Villasmil wrote:
Then...
Excuse my asking: What IS the point of doing accounting with openser,
if it will never be accurate?
Hi,
i would be really glad if you could sell me a 100% accurate accounting
solution. ;-) In real world scenarios there will be everytime an error
present, the size depends of course on the work/ money you want to invest. If
you have a sufficient large userbase, even sporadic and small errors will be
add up, and need to be handled from the customer support.
Cheers,
Henning
9:35 p.m.
David Villasmil wrote:
Then...
Excuse my asking: What IS the point of doing accounting with
openser, if it will never be accurate?
Just because someone wrote an accounting module for OpenSER, doesn't
mean it will be accurate or complete.
I do all my accounting via my media gateways - Then I know if media is
not flowing then we should not be getting charged or not charging anyone
else for any given call.
Jeremy McNamara
6009
days inactive
6009
days old
16 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
David Villasmil -
Henning Westerholt -
Iñaki Baz Castillo -
Jeremy McNamara -
Jesus Rodriguez -
Raúl Alexis Betancor Santana