Greger,
Thanks so much for your reply to my question, and thanks also to Olivier, Bravo, Iqbal, and Phil, who each sent me some great SER server recommendations or requested clarification to my confusing question.
You are right that I did not provide enough info in my question. I do not need any of the example services that you mentioned in a, b, c, d. I don't want to control or customize any SER server, I only want to be a normal customer of an existing SER server. I do not need any access to regular telephones.
What I want to do is have a call center with 10 tutors, with each tutor connected to a different remote student, The 10 teachers and 10 students would each be using the Windows (SIP) Messenger softphone and would find and call each other using the SER server. The SER server would need to allow media-proxy service so that we can traverse NATs and firewalls.
I have selected Windows (SIP) Messenger as my softphone because it is cost-free (quite important if I have 300 students) and because it has a whiteboard (required for the tutoring). If someone can suggest a better softphone which has a whiteboard I would be very happy, especially if the softphone supports STUN.
If the suggested softphone is free, that would be perfect. I can't really afford to use a softphone which charges me a fee for each named user, but if I need to pay a reasonanable price for each SIMULTANEOUS user, that would be ok.
Most of the SER server websites that I have visited seem to recommend the Xten softphone, but since it has no whiteboard, I cannot use it.
Windows (SIP) Messenger does not appear to support STUN, so media-proxy is the only way I know to traverse NATs. (Please correct me if I am wrong about Messenger not supporting STUN.)
I know that the newest versions of Windows (SIP) Messenger do not allow connecting to 3rd party servers, so I plan to use the older versions that do allow it.
Some of the SER server websites ( like fonosip ) claim (after a search) that they support Windows (SIP) Messenger, but they do not offer any configuration instructions. The fonosip site also does not say whether they will offer media-proxy services, which I need for NAT traversal. It is strange that these SER service provider websites provide very little info about whether they support media-proxy or how to configure a softphone for STUN.
I know that media-proxy places a heavy load on the SER server, and that some SER servers are therefore reluctant to consume their expensive bandwidth by offering media-proxy services. But since there must be many other customers who are willing to pay for media-proxy service, there should be a group of SER servers who are offering this service for a fee. I just need to find one.
Can someone please suggest a SER server which might satisfy the Messenger and media-proxy requirements?
And can someone recommend a better softphone with whiteboard?
thanks,
Michael
Greger wrote:
Dear Michael, I know that many on this list operate own services they sell in the market. Others sell software packages and services, both to corporations (ex. Asterisk + ser in a combo setup) and to service providers (some sort of white-label service). There are also hosted services for enterprises that are not based on SER.
I would suspect that lack of answer may have something to do with lack of information. You are not saying what you need. Here are some examples: a. A hosted SER server where you can log in and do changes to ser.cfg (for fun or commercial) b. A hosted corporate PBX-type solution c. A hosted SIP service ? la university setups with ENUM lookup and authentication against your own user database d. A white-label service that you will brand as your own and resell in a given market
And BTW, you are not saying anything about your requirements (just a vanilla SER server?!) nor the size of the subscriber base you want to support etc etc.
If you are looking for b, you are probably better off looking in your local market for a telephony provider who can give you IP access. g-)
Windows Messenger supports UPNP. If each remote user has a UPNP firewall/NAT gateway (there are many cheap ones now) then they dont need STUN or mediaproxy.
BTW - this is the only NAT solution that works "properly" with Windows Messenger. WM used silence suppression or VAD. With a remote NAT proxy solution the user will need to speak before the full audio path is opened. This itself is not so bad since users tend to say 'hello' or something into the mic when they answer or hear no audio. Most people using SER dont notice or see this problem in normal use cases but it does exist.
Mark
On 10/28/05, Michael Kendall michael@starmega.com wrote:
Greger,
Thanks so much for your reply to my question, and thanks also to Olivier, Bravo, Iqbal, and Phil, who each sent me some great SER server recommendations or requested clarification to my confusing question.
You are right that I did not provide enough info in my question. I do not need any of the example services that you mentioned in a, b, c, d. I don't want to control or customize any SER server, I only want to be a normal customer of an existing SER server. I do not need any access to regular telephones.
What I want to do is have a call center with 10 tutors, with each tutor connected to a different remote student, The 10 teachers and 10 students would each be using the Windows (SIP) Messenger softphone and would find and call each other using the SER server. The SER server would need to allow media-proxy service so that we can traverse NATs and firewalls.
I have selected Windows (SIP) Messenger as my softphone because it is cost-free (quite important if I have 300 students) and because it has a whiteboard (required for the tutoring). If someone can suggest a better softphone which has a whiteboard I would be very happy, especially if the softphone supports STUN.
If the suggested softphone is free, that would be perfect. I can't really afford to use a softphone which charges me a fee for each named user, but if I need to pay a reasonanable price for each SIMULTANEOUS user, that would be ok.
Most of the SER server websites that I have visited seem to recommend the Xten softphone, but since it has no whiteboard, I cannot use it.
Windows (SIP) Messenger does not appear to support STUN, so media-proxy is the only way I know to traverse NATs. (Please correct me if I am wrong about Messenger not supporting STUN.)
I know that the newest versions of Windows (SIP) Messenger do not allow connecting to 3rd party servers, so I plan to use the older versions that do allow it.
Some of the SER server websites ( like fonosip ) claim (after a search) that they support Windows (SIP) Messenger, but they do not offer any configuration instructions. The fonosip site also does not say whether they will offer media-proxy services, which I need for NAT traversal. It is strange that these SER service provider websites provide very little info about whether they support media-proxy or how to configure a softphone for STUN.
I know that media-proxy places a heavy load on the SER server, and that some SER servers are therefore reluctant to consume their expensive bandwidth by offering media-proxy services. But since there must be many other customers who are willing to pay for media-proxy service, there should be a group of SER servers who are offering this service for a fee. I just need to find one.
Can someone please suggest a SER server which might satisfy the Messenger and media-proxy requirements?
And can someone recommend a better softphone with whiteboard?
thanks,
Michael
Greger wrote:
Dear Michael, I know that many on this list operate own services they sell in the market. Others sell software packages and services, both to corporations (ex. Asterisk + ser in a combo setup) and to service providers (some sort of white-label service). There are also hosted services for enterprises that are not based on SER.
I would suspect that lack of answer may have something to do with lack of information. You are not saying what you need. Here are some examples: a. A hosted SER server where you can log in and do changes to ser.cfg (for fun or commercial) b. A hosted corporate PBX-type solution c. A hosted SIP service ? la university setups with ENUM lookup and authentication against your own user database d. A white-label service that you will brand as your own and resell in a given market
And BTW, you are not saying anything about your requirements (just a vanilla SER server?!) nor the size of the subscriber base you want to support etc etc.
If you are looking for b, you are probably better off looking in your local market for a telephony provider who can give you IP access. g-)
Serusers mailing list serusers@lists.iptel.org http://lists.iptel.org/mailman/listinfo/serusers
Just some friendly advice - forget about using WM (Windows Messenger) for your application. Its not really 'free' if you plan to use any feature besides voice.
In SIP mode, IM (and I'll bet WB (whiteboard) has the similar issues) expects a header that contains a key generated by LCS. I dont know of anyone who has managed to 'crack' this and use SER as an IM/WB proxy for WM for free.
If you must use WM, then LCS is your only real option for fully functioning system - and that will cost you per seat for Microsoft. They might have some education discounts or freebies but setup of what you want will still require someone to host it and/or consulting fees for setup. Any you will still have firewall issues unless all remote users have a uPnP router.
Another approach for you it to use the sipc system. It free for educational and research and I bet it work with SER (but haven't tried myself).
http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~xiaotaow/sipc/
Mark
Hi Michael, You got more reponse now, but maybe not what you expected :-) Free World Dialup and iptel.org have both free services that should bit your bill, both do NAT traversal. Just request your students to register and they have an account beyond the tutoring. g-)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Kendall" michael@starmega.com To: serusers@lists.iptel.org; michael@starmega.com Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:12 AM Subject: [Serusers] fee-for-service SER server - clarified
Greger,
Thanks so much for your reply to my question, and thanks also to Olivier, Bravo, Iqbal, and Phil, who each sent me some great SER server recommendations or requested clarification to my confusing question.
You are right that I did not provide enough info in my question. I do not need any of the example services that you mentioned in a, b, c, d. I don't want to control or customize any SER server, I only want to be a normal customer of an existing SER server. I do not need any access to regular telephones.
What I want to do is have a call center with 10 tutors, with each tutor connected to a different remote student, The 10 teachers and 10 students would each be using the Windows (SIP) Messenger softphone and would find and call each other using the SER server. The SER server would need to allow media-proxy service so that we can traverse NATs and firewalls.
I have selected Windows (SIP) Messenger as my softphone because it is cost-free (quite important if I have 300 students) and because it has a whiteboard (required for the tutoring). If someone can suggest a better softphone which has a whiteboard I would be very happy, especially if the softphone supports STUN.
If the suggested softphone is free, that would be perfect. I can't really afford to use a softphone which charges me a fee for each named user, but if I need to pay a reasonanable price for each SIMULTANEOUS user, that would be ok.
Most of the SER server websites that I have visited seem to recommend the Xten softphone, but since it has no whiteboard, I cannot use it. Windows (SIP) Messenger does not appear to support STUN, so media-proxy is the only way I know to traverse NATs. (Please correct me if I am wrong about Messenger not supporting STUN.)
I know that the newest versions of Windows (SIP) Messenger do not allow connecting to 3rd party servers, so I plan to use the older versions that do allow it.
Some of the SER server websites ( like fonosip ) claim (after a search) that they support Windows (SIP) Messenger, but they do not offer any configuration instructions. The fonosip site also does not say whether they will offer media-proxy services, which I need for NAT traversal. It is strange that these SER service provider websites provide very little info about whether they support media-proxy or how to configure a softphone for STUN.
I know that media-proxy places a heavy load on the SER server, and that some SER servers are therefore reluctant to consume their expensive bandwidth by offering media-proxy services. But since there must be many other customers who are willing to pay for media-proxy service, there should be a group of SER servers who are offering this service for a fee. I just need to find one.
Can someone please suggest a SER server which might satisfy the Messenger and media-proxy requirements?
And can someone recommend a better softphone with whiteboard?
thanks,
Michael
Greger wrote:
Dear Michael, I know that many on this list operate own services they sell in the market. Others sell software packages and services, both to corporations (ex. Asterisk + ser in a combo setup) and to service providers (some sort of white-label service). There are also hosted services for enterprises that are not based on SER.
I would suspect that lack of answer may have something to do with lack of information. You are not saying what you need. Here are some examples: a. A hosted SER server where you can log in and do changes to ser.cfg (for fun or commercial) b. A hosted corporate PBX-type solution c. A hosted SIP service ? la university setups with ENUM lookup and authentication against your own user database d. A white-label service that you will brand as your own and resell in a given market
And BTW, you are not saying anything about your requirements (just a vanilla SER server?!) nor the size of the subscriber base you want to support etc etc.
If you are looking for b, you are probably better off looking in your local market for a telephony provider who can give you IP access. g-)
Serusers mailing list serusers@lists.iptel.org http://lists.iptel.org/mailman/listinfo/serusers
-
Greger V. Teigre -
Mark Aiken -
Michael Kendall